In a perfect world, the 164 LS would exist only in the domain of white-haired men over 70 who wear scarves like a priest's stole over their overcoat and enjoy classical music with their drives. In reality, the 164 LS is adored by dorks like us who wish they gave off that aura.
We will ignore our stubborn insistence on manual transmissions for the sake of this example, because other than the auto trans, it is a perfect 164 LS spec to us. A 1994 model would be non-EGR, which makes service slightly easier. The green exterior over tan interior is one of our favorite color combinations, and anyone who hasn't experienced the leather on a 164 owes it themselves to check it out - it's seriously nice leather for a mass-produced sedan. Euro headlights and the wood steering wheel are nice (expensive) additions that we really like to see.
Of all of the 164 models, the 164Q seems to fall victim to the most customization. Here we have a dark window tint, Alfa Romeo script on the rear light bar and at the top of the windshield, a custom exhaust, tinted taillights, and yellow foglights. Oh, and the car, originally black, is wrapped in red vinyl. Fortunately, it's all reversible, and it's hopefully the sign of an owner who enjoyed and cared for his car enough to make a few tweaks here and there.
More notable than the mods is the fact that this example doesn't run. The seller doesn't know the exact reason, but suspects that it has something to do with timing. We'd be cautious with starting a 24V car without confirmation of proper cam timing - as long as the valves aren't bent, it could be a pretty simple fix.
The Alfa Romeo 164 lacks racing history. It isn't a sports car. It has considerable Swedish provenance. And yet, if we were to recommend a single Alfa Romeo model to someone seeking to experience the Alfa Romeo brand, it would be the 164 - the 164S in particular.
Competence in curves, great gear ratios in the 5-speed manual gearbox, and a fat power band that is rewarding no matter where the tach needle is pointed all combine for a sports sedan with undeniable Alfa Romeo DNA. The styling is of an era, but above all, it is intentional and deliberate like a true Alfa Romeo.
All of the 164 hounds out there know that 164s are cheap and easy to come by if you know where to look. Sub-$1000 transactions aren't uncommon, and we've heard of 164s simply given away to their new owners. And, while we understand the realities of market value - the potential market for a used 164 is really quite small - limited appeal doesn't mean that the 164 lacks for redeeming qualities.
In a 1991 Alfa 164L, you will find automatic climate control, heated seats, fog lights, 15" wheels, a 3.0L Busso V6, cruise control, power mirrors, power windows, power locks, and a power moonroof. In its time, that was a really generous list of options; if you want some interesting and Italian to drive in relative comfort, you can buy a new Giulia, sure, but a clean 164 will check many of the same boxes (off the track at least) and do so in excellent 90s Pininfarina style.
We've always found diesel engines to be a great way to desecrate the Alfa Romeo experience. Take away the music, the power, and the high-strung tension of moving the needle up to redline, and you've subdued the spirit of an Alfa.
But, a 164 is not a typical Alfa in the way that it moves down the road. It has a large footprint, a considerable curb weight, and FWD, for one thing. And though the 164 screams with the 24V Busso, it does have a Germanic heftiness to it - a solid feeling that would benefit from the drama-free torque of a diesel powertrain. We think the 164 driver would especially enjoy the diesel on the autobahn, where low engine speed at high vehicle speeds makes for a calmer experience.
How about a 164 to follow up yesterday's Milano Platinum? We're on a roll with clean, cared-for examples this weekend, and today's 164 is even better than the Milano listed yesterday.
The 164 is what followed the Milano as the North American sedan offering from Alfa Romeo, but it's not really an honest successor to the Milano. The 164 rides on an appreciably larger platform than the Milano does, and coupled with features like automatic climate control and leather seating surfaces - some of the best on any car, if you ask us - really feels upmarket to the Milano. Row through its five gears, though, and you won't be let down in the driving dynamics department. We'd recommend withholding judgment of the FWD platform until you drive one - you won't be let down.
The typical eBay hunt for Alfas starts by sorting from old to new, and often, sorting by manual transmissions only as well. Automatics are acceptable in two circumstances - with Milanos, because an automatic rear transaxle is too weird to ignore, and on 164s, because according to many, they fit the character of the car very well. Not our first choice, but we can how some might enjoy it. Now, when scrolling through the prospects, there is a distinctive split between 1995 and 2016 where Alfa pulled away from the North American market. It's right at that split that we find the most special 164, the 164 Q.
The 164 platform makes no case for itself on paper - FWD, mid-size, shared with Fiat, Saab, and Lancia - and yet on the road it is one of the most engaging sedans we've driven. Power is available early in all models, the steering is direct and responsive, and the ride is firm but capable of handling potholes. The 164Q improves on the basis of the 164 with a 232bhp 24V version of the Busso V6 and electronically controlled dampers. The dampers we could do without - they're getting difficult to source these days - but the extra maintenance requirements of the 24V V6 are justified by the impressive acceleration. Merging onto the interstate in a 24V 164, you will be tempted to wring out 3rd, if not 4th gear.
This one-owner 164 exemplifies the erstwhile strength of the Alfa Romeo brand. How else do you explain 224,000 miles worth of caring ownership? The owner of this example passed before selling, but how does one replace a 164 these days? Starting in 2016, the Giulia would have been an option, but as much as we do respect the Tipo 952 Giulia, it just doesn't stack up to the 164 in terms of sound and design. Dynamically? That's another story.
We have dabbled in 164 ownership. First, with a 164LS with 164Q 45mm runners and a Squadra tuning chip worth a claimed 240hp. We'd still be driving that had a high-g off ramp cloverleaf not starved a rod bearing of vital oil pressure. Later, we ventured to New Jersey for a $1,300 164L that cost us many a night toiling in our cold Michigan garage. After exhaustive reconditioning efforts netted a car below our personal standards, we reluctantly passed the car on to another enthusiast, who would start at a much better point than we did.
This is a great looking 1993 Alfa Romeo 164-L. There has been one owner since new and this car has 224,523 miles. This 164 was owned by an auto sports aficionado who also owned a two European auto dealerships. He had a certain affinity for this car, and apparently spared little expense to keep it in great condition mechanically and cosmetically. He passed away last year which is how we came to own this Alfa. This 164 is equipped with the 3.0L engine and 5-speed manual transmission. I'm told that the owner had the engine completely rebuilt and upgraded to 164-S performance specs in 2015. We sold a very nice 1991 164-S with 96k miles in November 2019, and this 164-L runs stronger than that car in every respect.
This Alfa runs and drives very well. The engine runs very strong and the transmission shifts smoothly. There aren’t any service or warning lights on. The tires are showing lots of tread and the brakes are in great shape as well. The oil & filters were replaced last week, and this car is ready to be picked up and put to use today.
The exterior of this Alfa is very clean and looks great. The Anthracite Metallic paint is very glossy over the entire body. There are lots of stone chips on the front, many of which have been touched up already. The alloy wheels are bright and clean, and all exterior trim is intact and in great condition. There aren’t any dents or body rust on this car, and the undercarriage is in excellent condition as well.
The interior has been well maintained and is in terrific condition. The interior of this car is not beat up in the slightest and could easily pass for a vehicle with 75k miles. All leather seats are in excellent condition and not worn or damaged. The carpeting is also fluffy and clean without any holes. All of the trim panels and trim pieces are intact and in great condition. The owner was a non-smoker owned vehicle, and there aren't any burn marks or odors inside this car.
There is no accident history in the lifetime of this car, and we have the clear title in hand. This Alfa Romeo should provide excellent service for many years to come, and is ready to be driven away or shipped anywhere
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The seller claims that the original owner had the engine rebuilt and upgraded with 164S pistons and cams in 2015. If that were to be true, this would be the most ideal of 164s in our opinion. Quieter styling than the S and Q models, but with the more simple 12V in its top spec.
The leather is clean and in great condition, the carpets neat, and the exterior mostly surviving, other than a few stone chips. Sometimes there comes a time when one questions whether the investments into a cheap old car will pay off. We think that keeping this car in the condition that it's currently in, and spending a bit to tidy up the paint would pay off without a doubt.
Even a hasty collection of vertical cell phone shots of a clean 164 LS parked in a gravel drive do justice to the design of the FWD Alfa Romeo sedan. We've seen the details that make this design so pleasing show up in other automakers' work lately. VW offers the same green over tan interior on their recently canceled Golf Alltrack. Rivian's R1T and R1S both employ a similar light bar across the tailgate of their trucks. And of course, Alfa Romeo still offers the circle motif, albeit five of them and in a larger diameter, on the wheels of the Giulia.
Those who love the design of the 164 easily forgive the 164's mechanical makeup, but what isn't to like about it? Interior room and comfort is up over the Milano, but the weight penalty isn't noticeable in normal driving. On this LS model, the power (210hp in stock form), is a major improvement over the 183hp in a Milano Verde, and the way the power builds as you wind out the tach is as close to a thrill as you'll experience in a 1990's executive sedan.
I've owned my Alfa 164LS for almost 20 years. I have owned several Alfas and am i lifelong Alfisti. This Alfa has been loved and cared for the Alfas should be. Many new parts over the years; too many to list. Recently upgraded suspension with new components including Koni shocks. You can fly in from anywhere in the country and drive this car home. Here are the only issues:
Small rust spot above windshield and on fender. Not obvious at all; very small.
Driver's seat will not go up or down. works fine going back and forth.
Heated seats inop
Cruise Control inop
CD changer works sometimes.
LCD Climate control display works great and all pixels work except one.
That's it. The car is ready to enjoy and be driven. I simply don't have the time for it anymore.Please ask me any questions! I want it to go to a good home 🙂
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These 24V V6's require a careful wrench when it comes to cam belt replacement and cam timing adjustment. The cams gears are not keyed, so cam locks are required when setting the timing, unless you've really got a knack for it. Timing belt tension should be set with a weighted arm, but again, those who know their way around these engines can set it by feel. Having done only two 24V timing belt jobs, we'll exclude ourselves from that list. The point of all of this is to say that we advise interested parties to inquire as to the age of the timing belt and idler bearings. Recent suspension work, including Koni shocks, should have the ride in fairly good order. Looking at the engine bay photos, we have a good feeling about the mechanical health of this example.
The seller encourages potential buyers to fly in and drive this car home. We've done three separate 164 acquisitions from long distance, and will add that if you do indeed fly in and drive home, you'll probably fall for the car on that first long trip. No Alfa loves 80mph cruising quite so much as a 24V 164.
We came to a realization this morning: we can share automatic transmission cars here because we aren't personally shopping for each and every car that we post up to the blog. Well, we sort of are shopping for all of the cars, but the point about automatics stands. We'll borrow the seller's description of the 164LS as a diplomat's car, and allow for the automatic transmission as a luxury feature befitting that image.
That said, manual transmission versions of the 164LS exist, and we've owned one. The LS, available from 1994-1995, featured the new 24V Busso V6, making 210hp, compared to the factory 232hp rating of the contemporary 164Q. Fortunately, the differences between the engines are limited to engine tuning and intake runner diameters; swapping the runners from a Q onto the LS and installing a Squadra chip will get power to a claimed 240hp. Our car was equipped as such, and the sweep up the tach happened surprisingly quickly.
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Year: 1995 Model: Alfa Romeo 164 LS Engine: 3.0L V6 Transmission: 4-speed automatic Mileage: 106,000 Price: Auction, no reserve Location: San Francisco, CA
This stately Italian has been my daily driver for the past 4+ years and it’s been a fantastic ride! There have been ups and downs, but that’s the joy of driving a vintage Alfa Romeo. The good news is that I’ve already paid to take care of most the things that go wrong with these cars, including the mostly costly (timing belt) and most infuriating (LCD display).
So If you’re looking to feel like an Italian diplomat circa 1995 this is the car for you!
Talk about luxury! Power seats, moon roof, climate control, plush Italian leather, wooden steering wheel, heated seats—this car was $55,000 new in 2019 dollars.
The Good:
• Timing Belt and all associated parts were replaced at 86k miles. You don’t want to buy a 164 if you don’t know when this was last done! • Passed CA smog with NO issues. (But come 2020 this car should be smog exempt) • LCD display was replaced and looks sharp with no dead spots • Sweet Euro Spec upgrades (Bosch projector headlights, wooden steering wheel, euro side markers, color logo center caps) • Leather interior is in fantastic shape! • Epic upgraded all aluminum radiator—this car stays cool • Tires are new with only a couple thousand miles on them • Engine is powerful and strong, transmission shifts smoothly • 3M 70% Crystalline tints on all windows including both windshields—DANG does this keep the heat out. • Optima yellow top battery • Replaced brake master cylinder • Replaced Alternator • stainless brake lines • lots of other work done with receipts.
Known issues: The idle sounds rough—RPMs are steady, but from outside the car it sounds rough, not sure if this is muffler or motor mount related, haven’t had time to investigate. Once the car is under power you wouldn’t know.
The upper motor mount is loose—the bushing has worn out. You can feel this in the steering a little bit at high speeds.
The A/C doesn’t often work, I spent some time investigating, but couldn’t get to the bottom of it. For those familiar with this car when I adjust the A/C flow, I can see the vent control arm moving behind the firewall—indicating that the stepper motors are working as intended. My best guess is that there is an issue with the vent door that controls the mix of hot air and cold air.
There is a brake fluid leak somewhere. I haven’t really investigated this, I’ve been adding a bit of brake fluid every month or two as the light comes on.
Hood was replaced after an incredibly low-speed accident that resulted in a dent next to the front grill.
Driver seat heater switch is finicky
Like I said this car has been my daily driver for 4+ years, ask me anything, I want to be honest here—I’d love to pass this car off to someone else who will truly enjoy it.
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The mechanical condition of this car is in a safe spot, but will require continuous attention to maintain. The LCD screen has been repaired, and the stepper motors are said to be operational. Still, the A/C does not work properly, and the issue is said to be electronic, rather than thermodynamic. Repairing that might require a lot of patience. No mention of timing belt and water pump service is made - interested parties would be wise to inquire as to their service status. 3 years and 30,000 miles is all that we can stomach on a 24V car, with double the valves at stake.
We really like the color combination on this example. The tan leather interiors can be surprisingly nice, if maintained at all, as this one appears. Reach into the front seat backs and you will feel the suede side of the hides - not something you'll find in most vehicles. The Bosch euro headlights are a smart upgrade, as is the wood-rimmed airbag steering wheel. For those with a taste for automatics in their luxury sedans, this no-reserve 164LS could make for a very nice purchase.
